No signs of distress after interaction with trans doctor, nurse tells tribunal
Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about Dr Beth Upton sharing a female changing area in Victoria Hospital, Fife.
A nurse who was suspended after she objected to sharing a changing room with a transgender doctor said she “did not see any signs of distress” after an exchange of words on Christmas Eve, a tribunal has heard.
Sandie Peggie, who has worked at the Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy, Fife, for 30 years, was suspended in January 2024 after a complaint by Dr Beth Upton, a transwoman who began working at the A&E department in August 2023.
Ms Peggie was suspended for bullying and harassment after a complaint made by Dr Upton after an incident on Christmas Eve 2023 in the female changing area.
The nurse lodged a complaint of sexual harassment or harassment related to a protected beliefs under section 26 of Equality Act 2010 regarding three incidents when they were in the changing room together – indirect harassment, victimisation, and whistleblowing.
On Wednesday, Ms Peggie gave evidence at an employment tribunal in Dundee and said her line manager had advised her to speak to Dr Upton.
Judge Alexander Kemp said: “I understand from what you said that you were aware (Dr Upton) might be using the changing rooms.”
Ms Peggie said: “It was just chitchat at work. It was being discussed. The staff members were just chatting about Beth and that he was a transwoman. I had mentioned ‘as long as he’s not getting changed in a female changing area’.”
Giving evidence, she said she spoke to her line manager, Esther Davidson, in August 2023, and told the tribunal: “I was hoping she would give advice and speak to someone in management or HR.”
Ms Peggie said she later asked what the outcome was, and added: “She had spoken to equality and diversity and if I was in that situation again I would have to speak to Beth.”
After an incident in October 2023 when she was partially undressed and Dr Upton walked in, Ms Peggie spoke to her line manager, the tribunal heard.
She was suspended after raising the issue with Dr Upton on Christmas Eve 2023 and previously told the tribunal she was “embarrassed” due to menstruation, and she insisted was not drawing comparisons with a convicted rapist when she likened the situation to a “biological man in a women’s prison”.
Cross-examining, Mr Kemp said: “Did you see any visible signs of distress?”
Ms Peggie said: “No.”
The nurse’s husband, Darren Peggie, gave evidence and said on Christmas Day 2023 his wife appeared “embarrassed and upset” when she got home from work.
Mr Peggie said: “She had a discussion with Dr Beth, she was quite upset. She was telling me in the morning. She was upset, she was embarrassed, then started opening Christmas presents.
“She said she went to changing rooms and he was in there. I think it might have been a heavy period. He was there and she was embarrassed.
“She was upset. She was trying to be okay for the kids and that and then went upstairs.”
Mr Peggie was asked if he had “strong opinions on trans people” during cross-examination by Jane Russell KC, representing Dr Upton and Fife health board.
He said: “I’ve got strong views on everything.”
One of the couple’s children also gave evidence, and said: “Mum came in obviously upset, we spoke about what had happened on her shift the night before.
“She told me that there was an altercation in the changing rooms the night before with a man present.
“She told me she went into change because she had bled, she walked in and there was a man and she felt intimidated and embarrassed.”
Representing Ms Peggie, barrister Naomi Cunningham said: “Was this the first you’d heard about a particular doctor getting changed?”
The woman said: “I’d heard previously but just that there was a man in the changing rooms.”
Founder of campaign group Sex Matters, Maya Forstater, gave evidence and said: “Our position is not that men are dangerous predators, but that men as a group are a risk, and men who identify as transwomen continue to form part of that group.”
She said the organisation “recognises there are two sexes and our objective is to promote human rights”.
Ms Forstater said comments made by a campaigner about “keeping down the number of people who transition” was in the context of “the recent rapid increase in children and young people transitioning”, the tribunal heard.
The tribunal continues.
