Terror trial: Suspect tells of meeting with MI5 and 'split' in Walsall Muslim group over rise of ISIS

Ayman Shaukat said he received a call from an MI5 agent called Nick in 2012 shortly after the founding of the group Islam Walsall, the Old Bailey was told today.

Shaukat, 27, or Pargeter Street, said he met Nick and another agent called Paul at the Hilton Park services off the M6 for up to an hour-and-a-half in either 2012 or 2013.

"I received a call and so did the chairperson and another member of Islam Walsall," he said from the witness box wearing a purple shirt.

"We were told they wanted a general chit chat."

He told the terrorism trial he met Nick and Paul alone.

"The conversation was about the work we were doing and some of the concerns they had with the situation in Syria," he said.

"They were talking about safeguarding messages and hoping we would pass it on.

"They said there were a number of things they needed the Muslim community to know about the risks associated with aid convoys and travelling to Syria."

He said Nick gave him his phone number and that they met up on five or six occasions before their relationship 'fizzled' out at the start of 2014.

"I said I would assist in any way I could," Shaukat said.

He said the group was independent of mosques and would give out information to people in Walsall town centre. He said they also addressed issues that Mosque leaders 'did not want to'.

In June 2014, ISIS declared a 'caliphate' (Islamic government) in parts of Syria and know as the so-called Islamic State with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as the caliph (successor to the Prophet Mohammed), Mr Ravij Menon QC defending said.

He asked Shaukat what the response was in Walsall.

"It became a major topic," Shaukat said.

"It was mind-boggling. People did not know how to react."

Shaukat told the court he and members of Islam Walsall, which was based in Bradford Lane, started researching Islamic State and watched propaganda videos which he said was 'pushing out an evil message'.

"As Islam Walsall we took the position that Islamic State is not an Islamic state.

"There is a huge difference between a organisation that calls themselves Islamic State and one that is a caliphate.

"Going back into historical events 1,300 or 1,400 years ago, it became clear this organisation is not something new.

"It is a threat Muslims have seen throughout history. Same people with same rhetoric, same political positions.

"In Islam Walsall it became a huge issue because it was something we had to look at and deal with."

He told the court there then was a split in the group, with some members 'sympathetic' with Islamic State forming their own group.

Mr Menon read a series of WhatsApp messages from Shaukat to another member of Islam Walsall where he said 'ISIS not caliphate' and that their believers were 'based on fantasy'.

Shaukat also recalled other 'joke' and 'mocking' messages he and other members made about ISIS.

A passage from the Quran cited by Shaukat in one message, translated as: "When you see black flags do not move your hand or your feet...they invite the truth but are not the people of it."

Mr Shaukat, who worked at a financial services firm in Wolverhampton and a phone shop in Smethwick, told the court: "This is one of the most concrete parts of evidence against what I believe ISIS are."

It is alleged Shaukat is part of a group of friends from Walsall who had travelled or intended to travel to join ISIS.

Shaukat denies two counts of assisting Alex Nash, 22, of Bentley Street, and Sajit Aslam, 34, of Glebe Street, to travel to Syria with the purpose to commit acts of terrorism.

His Honour Judge Charles Wide QC today ruled there was insufficient evidence on a count of possession material contrary to the Terrorism Act against Shaukat.

Also in the dock is Muslim convert Lorna Moore, 33, the wife of Aslam, also of Glebe Street, who denies a charge of failing to inform authorities of Aslam's plans.

It is alleged she was also planning to join her husband with their three children in Syria.

Nash has admitted that he intended to travel to Syria to join ISIS.

Siadatan's wife Kerry Thomason, 24, has admitted assisting her husband in preparation of acts of terrorism.

The trial continues.